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[Lord Anubis]

By this time next year, DC comics will already be down to 40-odd titles.  Maybe even less.  At this point they'll quietly start phasing out all the changes (like Superman's "ceremonial Kryptonian armor") and restoring all the classic costumes.

By early 2013 (man, it's weird to write that in a serious sentence), they'll probably re- re-number Action comics back to 900-whatever it should be at that point.

 

[Rob Pegler]

I expressed some surprise that DC were "rebooting" their every title, but a friend of mine who frequently/occasionally reads the things told me, "Oh, they do it every ten years or so. Usually when they've written themselves into a corner."

I have too little experience with the genre to know how accurate this is.

[Matthew]

Do you havre any links on what the new costumes will be?

[Rob Pegler]

I bought a couple of B.P.R.D.s the other day and got a preview comic/catalogue thingy for DC 52. New costumes look like amped-up versions of the old ones. No more red panties on Superman. Wonder Woman appears to have a cow-catcher strapped to her torso. Were there always Red Lanterns? I dunno.

(Like I said, I don't really read DC. I should probably stop commenting or something.)

[Zombie Zak]

Rob: no, there were not always Red Lanterns, nor Indigo, nor Blue, nor Orange, nor ...

My predictions about DC 52:

It's a last ditch attempt by DC to resurrect their flagging sales, the industry as a whole, and comic books in print as an art form.

I think that by the end of 2013, they will no longer be publishing print comics (except as specialty editions, low print runs and/or promotional) and will focus primarily on Online and Merchandise and Franchise options.

I also think, that by mid 2012, more than half of the print titles will be cancelled.

Of the titles that remain, I don't think they will last.  The covers that I've seen, the storylines I've heard of, and everything that else that I've been exposed to, tells me that this is headed for a fall.

On the day of print of each of the new 52 titles, they will be available online, at the same price.  Not much of a dissuasion for the collector, but the average reader (the bulk of comic sales) is moving to TPB's and GN's as opposed to individual issues.  "Nobody" likes to wait for parts of the story over a period of months, when they can get the whole thing and read it in its entirety in a single reading ... short attention spans and all that.

Oh, well; it makes me sad, of course, but it's the same general progression as print edition books, moving more and more to E-Books instead of print - only at an accelerated pace.

Matthew, try this one:

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/13/dc-comics-september-2011/

Happy comic reading!

And remember, every Wednesday is new comic book day ....

[Matthew]

From what you guys have said makes me think several things.

1) DC is looking at an industry wide problem and trying to fix it with a stunt.
2) Ink and paper comic books are going the way of the dodo.
3) Comic book style illustrated storytelling is going to survive in other forms.
4) Which means that the market will shift likely away from collectors and back to ordinary readers.
5) Which could mean fewer publishing stunts.
6) Comic book stores are going to take a huge hit, fatal for many/most.
7) But Superman, Archie, Mickey Mouse, and other characters with a solid fan base will survive.

[Zombie Zak]

From what you guys have said makes me think several things.

1) DC is looking at an industry wide problem and trying to fix it with a stunt.
2) Ink and paper comic books are going the way of the dodo.
3) Comic book style illustrated storytelling is going to survive in other forms.
4) Which means that the market will shift likely away from collectors and back to ordinary readers.
5) Which could mean fewer publishing stunts.
6) Comic book stores are going to take a huge hit, fatal for many/most.
7) But Superman, Archie, Mickey Mouse, and other characters with a solid fan base will survive.

Yup, a large of that.  Although, I think the stunts will remain.  And I think DC is mostly just trying to fix its own house, but that it's indicative of the big comic guys.  I think the Indies and smaller pubs will continue on for awhile, maybe as the "class style" of counter culture - I hope so, anyways...

[Lord Anubis]

I expressed some surprise that DC were "rebooting" their every title, but a friend of mine who frequently/occasionally reads the things told me, "Oh, they do it every ten years or so. Usually when they've written themselves into a corner."

Rob, they do tend to have some form of semi-regular revamping, but it's still rare to do it on this scale and all at once.  These changes are all happening in September.  They're changing/ starting 52 comics/ characters in the space of 30 days.  As Matthew said, it's a huge stunt.

The big problem with said stunt is it puts all the pressure on the comic stores.  They're the ones who have to shoulder the costs and make the choices for fifty+ number one issues in a single month.  A brilliant thing to ask them to do in this economy.  I read an article by a guy who runs a fairly large comic shop and he estimated he wouldn't even order half of them, and the ones he did he'd probably only buy ten or twelve copies.  He can't afford to risk more than that.

On the day of print of each of the new 52 titles, they will be available online, at the same price.

That part blew me away when I first heard it, Zak.  A perfect opportunity to get new readers and bring back old ones by dropping the price to 99 cents, and they're charging regular cover price?   

I think the sad thing is the big two (DC and Marvel) continue to ignore their real problem.  They're marketing their comics to the 35+ demographic instead of kids.  How can they expect their sales to expand when they're trying to sell an inherently childish product to an age group with mortgages, car payments, medical bills, and even children.  Common sense tells you that's a shrinking demographic.

When I was at ComicCon I was talking with someone and put it this way-- How old were you when you started reading comics?  I know I had comics when I was younger, but I think I was seven or eight when I began actively following things like Spider-Man and Hulk and ROM.  That's when I got hooked.

So, that being said... who would give a Marvel comic to a seven year old today?  Would anyone feel comfortable letting an eight-year old pluck one off the rack and read it?

 

[Zombie Zak]

Yeah, like that.

The big 2 are mostly digging holes for themselves, I think, too.  They have too many titles, too many active characters, scenarios, cross platforms, etc.  It's too much for the "collector" and the average kid.  This is why I still like the indies and the smaller imprints.

It's funny how Dark Horse and IDW don't seem to have the same issues as DC and Marvel, they're smaller imprints, but Dark Horse has just as much to lose as this whole thing begins to unravel. 

Oh, well, we'll just have to wait and see what happens ....

[Lord Anubis]

I think Dark Horse and IDW are doing okay because they've always been putting out comics that were designed and aimed for an older (and smaller) demographic.  They never had to deal with their product conflicting with their audience, thus they probably haven't lost as much (I'm guessing here) because they were always aiming at the right target.  Financially, they also started from a position of valuing/ paying artist and writers more and thus charging more.  Again, their audience was okay with that because they knew they were getting a higher grade book.

I'd guess because of this that they're probably in a much stronger (and more resilient) position than Marvel or DC. 

Actually, I just thought of a great analogy...  You know how every couple of years McDonalds or Burger King or Jack in the Box will come out with some kind of gourmet menu to prove they're a real restaurant?  And almost no one buys it, because at the end of the day it's gourmet prices to sit on a plastic bench and eat your food out of a paper wrapper while a clown stares at you.  So they take it off the menu and just console themselves with the fact that McDonalds probably brings in more than any other restaurant in the world... 

Marvel and DC are two fast food places that have decided to put out nothing but their gourmet menu because they're just as good as those other places.  And they've hired all the best waiters and they've got a maitre'd... but at the end of the day it's gourmet prices to sit on a plastic bench and eat your food out of a paper wrapper while a clown stares at you.

Or in this case, while Batman stares at you...

[Rob Pegler]

When I was at ComicCon I was talking with someone and put it this way-- How old were you when you started reading comics?  I know I had comics when I was younger, but I think I was seven or eight when I began actively following things like Spider-Man and Hulk and ROM.  That's when I got hooked.

So, that being said... who would give a Marvel comic to a seven year old today?  Would anyone feel comfortable letting an eight-year old pluck one off the rack and read it?

 

I have a slightly different perspective on this, because I never really read superhero comics. I grew up on the likes of 2000AD and The Savage Sword of Conan, with only occasional issues of X-Men or Batman or whatever my brothers had picked up on a whim and then discarded on the bookshelf.

2000AD was full of things like Judge Dredd (fascist lawman in a dystopian future) Strontium Dog (despised mutant bounty hunters doing society's dirty work) Rogue Trooper (genetically engineered super-soldier hunts traitor general across hellish war-torn planet) and Nemesis the Warlock (anarchic devil-horned alien battles mad genocidal religious despots). It was all dark and (often gruesomely) violent, subversive and (in the case of things like Nemesis) surreal as fuck. Can't say what age group it was aimed at, but the chief audience seemed to be pre-teen/adolescent kids (I started reading it at eleven).

One of my all-time favourite stories was Zenith: Phase Three, in which an army of British superheroes are slaughtered on a grand, tragic and bloody scale while trying to save the universe from an infestation of demons. (Picture Hamburger Hill with capes. And a lot more blood.) That was in the mid/late 80s, and it only got got more "mature" as it went on.

And Conan... well, you know what he got up to.

[Matthew]

Marvel and DC are two fast food places that have decided to put out nothing but their gourmet menu because they're just as good as those other places.  And they've hired all the best waiters and they've got a maitre'd... but at the end of the day it's gourmet prices to sit on a plastic bench and eat your food out of a paper wrapper while a clown stares at you.

Or in this case, while Batman stares at you...

It could still be a clown.

[Lord Anubis]

It could still be a clown.

Dammit.  I should've thought of that...   

[Matthew]

Has anyone ever done a story where the Joker tries to move in on the fast food business?  The closest I can think of was the "joker fish" storyline years ago.  There are a lof of fun possibilities, just imagine happy meals.

[Lord Anubis]

They're too serious for that now.   

Gone is the Joker of giant pianos and bright purple tanks.  He's only marginally like the phenomenal (and child-safe) character Mark Hamill played in the animated series for years.  The only way you can do the Joker is to have him be more psychotic and violent the Christopher Nolan/ Heath Ledger version.

And then make him a Red Lantern.  Or Yellow Lantern.  I get the colors mixed up...