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[HOO-HAA]

Ok, so I'm working on the sequel to FLU and wondered if you guys could help me out.

I need to know just how quickly the internet might collapse once a pandemic runs amok in a certain land mass (say Ireland). If the pandemic was mostly contained (at first) and didn't travel across to the UK, would Irish internet connections still work? I mean, the internet needs providers but that might come through businesses in the UK, right?

I admit, I'm not the most technically minded person so any tips/ advice you could offer would be most welcome...

[Bobbie]

Bravebluemice, Jacob or Snell!  Wayne need you for a sec!

[Winter]

Without someone to deliberately turn it off, internet access would keep running until each ISP's power goes out. If the power comes from a coal or oil-fired plant, that doesn't take long at all without people continually stoking them. A few days at most.

Regards,
Ryan

[Snell]

I don't know enough about the infrastructure of the WWW to be of much help, but...

The duration definitely would depend upon power, as Ryan said. In LIFE AFTER PEOPLE, which you can find in parts on YouTube, I think there's a great section on how long power would last (in the US, at least). But, as Ryan speculated, a few days, I think, is accurate.

Of course, power isn't the only limiting factor. There are maintenance issues on servers and other equipment that should be considered. I don't know what those are, exactly, except that they exist.

Maybe understanding how you'll use the information in the story would help us. For example, if we knew you wanted a character to hop on the Internet to watch your book trailer on YouTube, we might be able to help construct a scenario in which that's possible: a backup generator and a satellite internet connection via a UK ISP.

If you can't give away that kind of information without spoiling the story, then the answer to the simpler question--do you, or do you not, want internet--might be useful.

[frank]

I imagine that some servers would have back up power of some kind, but everything  in the communications chain would need to keep running.  Out here in the sticks of Georgia the local DSL connection goes down because of "lightning"  or "squirrels"  or old equipment under the best of circumstances.

But if one had a satellite connection, who knows?

[HOO-HAA]

Thanks for all your thoughts!

DL, it's a character who would definitely have a generator to create power. Although he's self-quarantined himself, his POV should have him keeping tabs on what's going on throughout the world through uploaded youtube videos.

I guess I'm wondering what happens to youtube and google etc. when no one has the time or inclination to oversee their operation?

What happens to an internet provider, such as AOL? Would one still be able to connect without a provider? 

[Brian Black]

That's a good point.  We live in a world of mobile broadband cards.  I don't know what Ireland has in regards to them, but the ISP in that way would be in space wouldn't it?   And in that situation it would become a case by case basis.   It'd be kind of funny if the only website still around during the zombie apocalypse was purple.com.

Of course the odds of discovering that would be pretty random.   Still...if this fella has any government ties, I'm sure he could log into a government only server which would be around for some time.

I wonder if the zombie apocalypse would be anything like a nuclear apocalypse.  I mean those underground fallout shelters would do wonders to stop the zombie invasion assuming that people weren't initially bitten when they went in.   Course you'd have to worry about survivalists maybe...although the odds of them finding you would probably be pretty slim.  But then you really couldn't rely on a mobile broadband card in a vault either...interference.

Hmmm...


How awesome would a story be about the zombie invasion and all the main character is concerned about is seeing a book trailer on YouTube though.  XD   Those godforsaken squirrels have eaten the interwebz!  What am I to do?!?


So I think if you're going to make a logic tree for the problem it would be something like this...

Zombie Web 2.0

|

ISP

|

Cable

DSL

Satellite

Cable Internet comes from a cable service provider.  It utilizes space on a designated channel for data transmission.

DSL is kinda crazy.  The further you are from the central office, the slower your internet becomes.  The limit is somewhere around 5,460 meters or 18,000 feet.  Because customers at the end of the extreme might receive MUCH lower download speeds...most providers actually lower that distance between centers.

Apparently I am naive and I was thinking mobile broadband came from satellite.  It comes from the same radio towers that cellphones use.  European towers broadcast a different radio signal called GSM or HSDPA (High-Speed Downlink Packet Access) It is unique because it allows voice and data transmissions to be performed at the same time.  Now there is satellite internet available in western europe.  I believe it is called Tachyon.   The way THAT works is that information is sent from the Hub to the satellite in space and then from the satellite beamed down to your own personal satellite at your home.  It deals with both downloads and uploads.  However it does have its limitations.  Preferably your satellite should have a clear view to the south and should be in an area free of trees, buildings, etc.  Rural areas mostly.

Alright...

So here would be my reflections:


Cable television and phone lines would probably be down pretty quickly.   For one thing...telephone lines would probably be off the hook, experiencing incredible stress due to the fact that everyone is trying to warn family members, call the police, ambulance, etc...

Plus people on the road...are probably going to be pretty reckless and as such if the phone lines are above ground...there is a good chance someone is going to hit the pole when trying to avoid traffic or zombie attack.  It seems like if you stick a random pole in the ground people go after it like a moth to the flame.  Seriously...think about how many drunk drivers end up hitting a power line or phone line...weird.


Cable television will be kept going as long as there is someone alive to produce the news.  However I think the trouble with that would mostly be that the government, if capable, will probably be taking control of the networks in order to produce calming propaganda.   Electricity will go out and buildings will lose power.


Cellphone towers will be experiencing extreme levels of use during the beginning of the apocalypse.  When power goes out...mobile broadband cards will not receive a signal.


Satellites will be up in space.  However they will be silenced when the hubs go down and are no longer transmitting information.


.............................


Now...the aftermath:


Satellites might be the easiest way to establish an internet link should you be able to supply the terrestrial ones power.   Also...the chance of any repairs during the zombie apocalypse would seem unlikely...although there is always a chance a plane might go down on one.    There are probably some pretty crazy satellites set up all over the place.  The government might have some set up for emergencies in places that provide their own natural power (such as the Hoover Dam in the US?).   Might be the stuff used in a story, but...how would a character even know where that existed unless they were pretty high in the military or political hierarchy?


Cellphone towers might also be relatively safe, but again, you'd have to head over there remotely and activate them.   Both of these are assuming that you have a way to supply power (such as a generator) and even then someone would have to remain to make sure that they were up and running.  And of course not only that, but you'd have to have fuel for the generator.   


I'm of course overly simplifying things.   I have no idea what sorts of computer software or know-how that you would need in order to get one of those things up and running again. 

Cable and DSL lines seem pretty tricky to me.   They're made to supply phone systems and video after all.  If you can fix all that...well heck...you'd have your own little city wouldn't you?  You probably wouldn't really need the internet in that case.   It would be funny if the person found a way to get some kind of cable network programming working, but were forced to only have reruns of I Love Lucy to watch.


......................................................

And then of course...assuming you got all those systems up and running...the internet is based off of a bunch of networked servers.   Once the power is wiped out on their end...you do not have any more websites.  I would think that this would probably go before everything else.   

The government might have a network...perhaps a gigantic network that backs up all of the websites that maybe google scans or so...just for the sake of archiving Earth's history.   Do they do that?  I don't know.  I know that there is a website that apparently does since you can go look at AOL's website from 1991, 92, etc.


If that's the case a person could reestablish the Internet...but really...what purpose would the average Joe have in doing that?  It's not like he's going to go online to pizzahut.com and order himself a pizza for delivery.



...I think it'd be easier to use a CB or some kind of ham radio or maybe even get a radio station up and running for communication than the Internet.   

Pretty much when all the electricity in the world starts failing...that is going to be the end of the Internet as well.    Unless of course you have some nuclear reactor that someone is keeping pretty maintained.   But I think most people, if alive, are going to be more interested in getting out of Dodge and to the mountains or on some kind of sea barge or make their castle a maximum security prison than worry about whether or not Oprah is still alive on entertainmentweekly.com

[Brave Blue Mice]

I would expect someone holeing up would acquire a sattelite downlink, so it's more a matter of whoever he's talking to having something to say.

Small nets like local wireless, even some major telecomms would go down pretty much as quickly as the zombpocalypse spreads.  I can imagine a zombie isn't going to be too careful when feeding in a datacenter, or switchouse.

Of course, it all depends on how technically savvy your character is.  If he's one of my ilk, it'll be like the dude played by Kevin Smith in Die Hard.  As long as there's someone else out there, there can be a connection.

That's the simple way of putting it.

Cheers,
~BBM

[Winter]

The vast majority of mobile broadband cards don't link up directly to space, they require a mobile phone tower, which then routes the signal to the nearest satellite uplink. You can get direct satellite links though. They're expensive, but they work.

The trouble is that with all the technicians in a place dead, there'd be nobody around to fix or even notice minor errors, nobody to turn it off and on again. My concern is that the internet does have a physical location and requires a lot of maintenance. If the power goes out in the server farm housing Google, for example, that's a large chunk of the web out on its arse. If the character's satellite-based ISP goes down, he would be completely cut off, if only temporarily (which might even make a fun plot twist).

Like Greg said, it can be done, but depending on the character's level of tech savvy it might be a rather tenuous link.

Regards,
Ryan

[JW Schnarr]

Concur! No electricity = death to interwebz. I like what Ryan said about the physical locations of the internet being the issue, not just your character's basement.

[HOO-HAA]

Is there a possibility that a small, online community could band together to keep connections live - sharing expertise with each other to keep everyone online enough to pass each other videos/ info etc.?

So, take us on these forums, for example. I'm not tech savvy and have only the usual modem/ wireless connection and PC set-up. If I was e-mailed step-by-step instructions to keep live, would that be enough or would I need specialist hardware to keep access a link (eg. the satellite link)?

[Zombie Zak]

A small band could keep a local network viable (as long as they had electricity to power the equipment), however the wider network (i.e.: The Interet) is hosted primarily on 80 nodes throughout the world (I believe that's the number, I could be wrong.)  The Net can take a hit on some of those nodes collapsing, but once the majority of them fail, the whole network will fail. 

The main issue for the sustainability of the Net is that infrastructure.  It can take a hit to some of it, but when its bombarded, it will fail. 

Just a quick thought fer ya.

[HOO-HAA]

A small band could keep a local network viable (as long as they had electricity to power the equipment),

And when you say 'local network', you don't mean the users, themselves, have to be physically living in close proximity? ie. The Permuted forum folks on this thread - would that constitute a 'local network'?

[Licorice Lain]

A small band could keep a local network viable (as long as they had electricity to power the equipment),

And when you say 'local network', you don't mean the users, themselves, have to be physically living in close proximity? ie. The Permuted forum folks on this thread - would that constitute a 'local network'?

Actually, that is exactly what it means. :/ Unless you could find a way to set it up for the whole town, you will have to rely on radio for communication.

[Permuted Press]

And when you say 'local network', you don't mean the users, themselves, have to be physically living in close proximity? ie. The Permuted forum folks on this thread - would that constitute a 'local network'?

A local network is a network made up of computers all in the same (smallish) area.  Like the business network in an office building would be a "local network."  Or in my house I have 3 computers that I share files between, that's a local network.

In computer networking terms I don't think the folks using the Permuted Press forum constitute a network of any kind, we're just corresponding via nodes connected to the global network we call the internet.