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[Matthew]

This is inspired by Doug's guns thread. It'll have to be more of a discussion thread than his because we don't have anyone who can speck to this subject as authoratatively. I've got a little background and a little background and a small collection of reference books and will supply potentially correct answers where possible. Anyone else, please feel free to chime in.

[Zombie Zak]

Zwiehander

http://www.odinblades.com/Pages/Zwiehander.html

One of my favourite types of blade.  Think of a Claymore on steroids.  Blade was meant to be used on horse back (as it is frickin' long - 2 meters).  Love these things.

A Quiz!

[Lane Adamson]

I'm a huge fan of anything with a blade and have been since I was a wee tot (and have the scars on my hands to prove it).  However, budgetary restrictions have always put a damper on the indulgence of my fantasies beyond the occasional new pocket-knife (sigh), so in actual practice I wouldn't know a claidheamh mòr from a sporran without good old Wikipedia.

[Doug (Ancient) Wojtowicz]

I like this thread. 

I've got lots of folding pocket knives and a couple of fixed-blades, including a stage duelling sword. 

Fun fact, even a one inch stub of a blade can penetrate deeply enough to sever major arteries.

[Lane Adamson]

I'd love to have an Emerson knife:



But who can afford $200+ if you don't actually NEED one for survival purposes?

[Matthew]

Fun fact, even a one inch stub of a blade can penetrate deeply enough to sever major arteries.

That indirectly gets to a topic I've thought about for years: point vs. edge.

For a lot of the writers of books on weapons it seems to be axiomatic that point is superior to edge. They cite the ability of the Romans with the thrusting gladius to defeat the North European tribes with their long slashing swords. They also point out that foil or epee fencers generally outpoint saber fencers in exhibition bouts.

But that analysis fails to take into account all of the other factors involved. A short stabbing sword works extremely well in the type of fighting the Roman legions did. In a tight military formation like the Roman manipole there's very little room to swing a long weapon. It's also comparatively easy to defend against a big swinging weapon when you and your friends on either side have really big shields. Block the German's first swing and then you have ample opportunity to stick him to death with your little sword. In the press of combat he doesn't have the room to ready another stroke or get out of your way very well. The thrusting attack of the gladius, on the other hand, requires very little space, very little energy, and very little footwork.

But take a Roman soldier out of his element and he may be in trouble. Put him in a duelling situation where both swordsmen have lots of room for footwork and the German's longer sword will suddenly be very difficult for him to deal with. He may still win, but it becomes much more difficult.

Similarly, the foil fencer is slightly better than the saber fencer in a bout (and the rapier fencer would probably have a similar advantage over a saber fencer in a duel, but put them on horseback and things change. When you're counting on the horse's footwork rather than your own, it's harder to manage the subtle thrusts and parries of the point sword, but it's still easy to slash. Also, hitting with the curved edge of a sword is an efficient was to add the energy of a charging horse to your attack. You can get extra thrusting power out of a horse charge too, but you run the risk of losing oyur sword when it's deeply embedded in your enemy. The saber is less likely to foul like this.

A zweihander is an impressive weapon, though I'm not aware of it being used much from horseback. It's heavy enough that it can chop the heads off of pikes, which was a good thing because phalanxes of pikemen were a real threat on Renaissance battlefields. It is also a good anti-cavalry sword. Like the Japanese no-dachi (another absurdly long sword) the zweihander was used to kill horses, leaving the riders helpless. It wasn't a great close quarters weapon though. It's weight made it too slow and too tiring. The Swiss landsknechts often carried a katzbalger (a smaller sword) for that kind of fighting.

There's no sword that's going to be best in every situation. There are a few swords that are very versatile (rapier and Japanese katana come to mind) but it's mostly a matter of the right tool for the right job.

[BlueasJim]

The only blade I ever really use is a Gerber. They are wonderful and I have never had a problem with mine. Although, there are many others out there.

[Lane Adamson]

A Quiz!

"You're a WAKIZASHI--The companion sword to the katana, wakizashis were commonly used by the Samurai.  You are a great asset to all that know you.  You're reliable, dependable, organized, optimistic, and loyal.  You wouldn't be any sort of leader, but you would do excellently assisting others in any unit larger than a squad.  You are the element of shadow."

That's actually not a bad assessment of my personality.

[Matthew]

Favorite movie swordfights:

I really like swordfights that show off the skill and imaginative choreography rather than wirework and clever editing. I've heard people rave about the Bride vs. the Crazy 88's but I don't like it. It's a good action scene, but Uma Thurman's swordsmanship is embarassingly bad.

I'm afraid I don't care for any of the fencing scenes in Richard Lester's musketeer movies either. He did something very good in showing that a real rapier is slower and heavier than the prop swords uses in the old swashbucklers. Unfortunately, he overdid it. The actors stagger around like they're swinging 20 lb iron bars. A realistic rapier is still a light and graceful weapon, and a trained swordsman isn't going to overbalance himself with every single attack. In fact it he should hardly ever do it.

In no particular order...

1. Basil Rathbone vs. Tyrone Power in "The Mark of Zorro" (brilliant swordplay and one of the all time great action scenes ever.)

2. Basil Rathbone vs. Errol Flynn in "Captain Blood" (the duel on the beach isn't as sharp as the fight in The Mark of Zorro but it's probably Rathbone's 2nd best ever (he was a competetive fencer and elevated every swashbuckler he was in.)

3. Stuart Granger vs. Mel Ferrer in "Scaramouche" (Excellent sword play but what makes this one is the imaginative use of stairs, furniture and other props an a very exciting scene)

3. Mandy Patakin vs. Cary Elwes in "The Princess Bride" (Very nice swordplay and the best dialogue ever in a fencing scene.)

4. Liam Neeson vs. Tim Roth in "Rob Roy" (It's harrowing rather than elegant but it's a great scene contrasting the use of two very different weapons, the smallsword and the backsword.)

5. Laim Neeson and Ewan MacGregor vs. Darth Maul in "The Phantom Menace" (for my money the very best of the lightsaber duels.)

6. Zhang Ziyi vs. Michelle Yeoh in "Crouching Dragon, Hidden Tiger" (Sparing use of wirework and elegant choreography make this by far my favorite fight scene in the film. The range of weapons used adds a lot of spice and the Green Desting destroying one weapon after another is a great touch. It also doesn't hurt that the principals are both gorgeous )

7. Jet Li vs. Tony DeLongis in "Fearless" (Often when you see an east vs. west fencing match it was clearly choreographed by someone who only knew one style well. This was the exception and it is fascinating to watch. My only complaint is that it was much too short.

8. Danny Kaye vs. Basil Rathbone in "The Court Jester" (It's not Rathbone's best but Kaye is brilliant and this ranks right behind "Princess Bride" as the best comic fencing scene of all time.)

9. Hanshiro Tsugumo vs. a castle full of swordsmen in "Harakiri" (my favorite one-against-many fight from Japanese cinema. Honorable mention goes to Shintaro Katsu who was brilliant in the many Zatoichi movies.)

10. Johnny Depp vs. Orlando Bloom in "Pirates of the Caribbean" (this is the scene in the first movie. The swordfights in the sequels were much too contrived and relied too much on sfx to be very good.)

[Lane Adamson]

I'd say my all-time screen favorite swordfight has to be Stewart Granger vs. James Mason in The Prisoner of Zenda.  Mason's catlike grace and delightfully evil exuberance made the scene; plus, he escaped at the end (too bad there wasn't a sequel).

You seem to be a Basil Rathbone fan, Matthew (but who isn't?).  So where's the grand finale from The Adventures of Robin Hood on your list?

[Matthew]

I'd say my all-time screen favorite swordfight has to be Stewart Granger vs. James Mason in The Prisoner of Zenda.  Mason's catlike grace and delightfully evil exuberance made the scene; plus, he escaped at the end (too bad there wasn't a sequel).

I've never seen this but have heard it's great.

You seem to be a Basil Rathbone fan, Matthew (but who isn't?).

True

So where's the grand finale from The Adventures of Robin Hood on your list?

Wonderful movie, but I didn't like the swordplay quite as well as either "Captain Blood." Maybe it was because they were using those broadswords, the choreography looked like it would have worked better with something lighter.

I would have liked to have seen him beat Flynn, just once in a movie.

[BlueasJim]

Matt.... you forgot Troy. Achilles vs. Hector. Comon!

[Lane Adamson]

It's badly dubbed in Spanish, and the scene's cut a little short, but it's the only clip I could find on short notice.  It gives you the gist:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=RV_x6YPoetU

(Tried inserting the clip but it wouldn't take.)

[Matthew]

Very nice!

Matt.... you forgot Troy. Achilles vs. Hector. Comon!

I've seen Troy but the scene didn't stick in my memory. Is it on youtube?

[Thom Brannan]

there are some more exotic knives i'd like to learn more about. specifically, the Spetsnaz ballistic knife.

also, i've read somewhere that the Spetsnaz had training on the using of the e-tool as a very deadly weapon. i mean outside of regular melee use, they were trained on how to throw it and stuff. check it out:



i also have a gravity knife, but i don't know what to call it. the guy i bought it from called it a "Jacob's Ladder," but no internet searches bring anything up. i'll post a picture of the knife when i can, maybe a short MPG of it in action, see if anyone can give me a name for it.