Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[elaire26]

If that's not Christian of me, I understand that.

We call them Crusades.  Some people call them Jihads.  Ann Coulter calls them presidential campaigns.   

In the immortal words of "The Bruces" sketch, "Hear, hear!  Well spoken, Bruce!"

Let's be a little bit more specific in the initiator of the crusades, the leader of the only true church, the Pope!  

Zombies don't hate people; people hate people - zombies just eat them all.

"Zombies don't kill people... People....

Wait...

Never mind... Zombies do kill people.... sorry...

[Zombie Zak]

Zombies don't hate people; people hate people - zombies just eat them all.

"Zombies don't kill people... People....

Wait...

Never mind... Zombies do kill people.... sorry...
[/quote]

No, no, no.  Ya see?  That's precisely the thing.  Zombies don't kill people.  People just sort of fall over and throw themselves at zombies and well, well, what is a poor, lone, defenseless, hungry zombie supposed to do except take advantage of the situation?  So, really, people just keep killing themselves and those poor old zombies keep cleaning up the mess....alas, alack, poor zombie, I knew him well!

 

[elaire26]

May I say that I'm glad my ancient post has ignited such spirited (pun intended) discussion.  I also enjoy the fact that despite our various points of view, we have remained respectful of each other.  

See, we can have respectful, though strong, political and religious discussions!  F u c k the man for saying people can't handle it.  Hell, we need more of it!

I've been going through a bit of a spiritual journey again.  I think it's okay to doubt my faith.  Right now, its not believing Jesus existed, yet still supporting the message of the work (The Bible) attributed to his "mythical" existance.  Does he need to have lived for the words in the book to be a pattern of living?  In particular, the whole "Jesus is Love/God is Love" concept.  Allow me to elucidate...

Naturally, university Philosophy class planted the seeds of doubt, with the final being one question "If God is omnipotent, he can't be omniscient/omnipresent/etc..."  I thought of college at the time as a factory for communist philosophy, so the Marxist "Religion is the opium of the poor" idea was all around me.... whatever...

And Anthropology class mentioned the co-opting of religions by the Catholics (Virgin Mary/Mother Goddess worship, Christmas/Winter soltice, Death and REssurection/Spring Solstice, etc)... Okay...

It was David Icke's "The Biggest Secret", a conspiracy book to rival "Comes a Pale Horse" that blew my mind.... With religion as a means of control over people...

With my religious foundation in place, the book ended with the concept of Love and Fear as two motivating forces behind our existance.  First off in short, we are all beings resonating at a particular vibrational frequency.  Love makes our DNA(!) vibrate at a particular frequency that facilitates creativity/life/love... Fear resonates on a much shorter frequency facilitating impotence/submission/loss of creativity...

Looking at how our world and corporate media harbor fear in our lives daily, its clear to me the people in charge at the top know what they are doing to us...

But when you do something with Love, with passion, you cannot be stopped... Creation is our destiny, dare I say "God given right".

Now, if God is Love/Jesus is Love, then the Bible (Like many other religious dogmas) are preaching this same concept....

So, do I need to believe in Jesus' trip to earth to follow the message of the Bible?  Can I accept the word as metaphor, but follow the ultimate message of Love and forgiveness (the direction the Catholic Church is now taking, as the Vengeful God of the Old Testament doesn't appeal to people these days)?

Here's the way I see it... If whatever faith (or lack of) you have (X-ism, I love, btw) is promoting love, harnessing creative energy, allowing your fellow man to walk this large rock and experience it as they see fit ( in peace, mind you, or in war <you can't have one without the other>), and kindness to your fellow man, is it so bad?

What a great discussion!

Oh, yeah... And I'm trying to get these shirts to catch on...

http://www.cafepress.com/bowieibarra

Bowie

[elaire26]

Alrighty then...

"Hey Bowie.  Good job shutting down conversation all together with that Great Wall of Text... Nice one! 

[Doug (Ancient) Wojtowicz]

Nah, you didn't shut nothin' down, Bowie. 

I'd just been keeping the peace between Deadmama and Shiny Hoo Ha over atheist/theist non interaction. 

In fact, you have an attitude I can actually get behind - taking the BEST lessons of religions and not allowing any of the more intolerant messages to interfere with the basic concept - THOU SHALT NOT POOP IN THE COMMUNAL WATERING HOLE.

So you don't believe in Jesus' existence, but there is still the teachings that you follow - the MAIN teaching.  "Be groovy to each other."

Be is Jesus, Bill and Ted, or the Great and Powerful Spaghetti monster, that's a good way to live, and you're not jamming it down anyone else's throat, but living by exemplar. 

[Lord Anubis]

Be is Jesus, Bill and Ted, or the Great and Powerful Spaghetti monster, that's a good way to live...

Son of a...

It's the Flying Spaghetti Monster you heretic heathen bastard!!!!! 

I call JIHAD on Doug!!!



 

 

[Zombie Zak]

Peace.
Post.
Pencils that disappear....

[Doug (Ancient) Wojtowicz]

Be is Jesus, Bill and Ted, or the Great and Powerful Spaghetti monster, that's a good way to live...

Son of a...

It's the Flying Spaghetti Monster you heretic heathen bastard!!!!! 

I call JIHAD on Doug!!!



 

 

My papa in Rome tells me that he's Great and Powerful.  Any spaghetti can fly.  Hawk Spaghetti is kinda impressive, but he's no Super Spaghetti!   

[Kody Boye]

Since religion kinda came into this topic...

I don't care if people are religious/non religious. I guess I'd consider myself Agnostic, since I believe in a 'force,' but don't believe in an actual 'God.' (I don't even know what I believe, lol.) I think the fact that I've never been taught anything about religion/God/etc. has made me the person I am today (I think I'm a fairly good person, anyway.)

The one thing that pisses me off is people who go around telling others they are 'wrong' for whoever they are, specifically the HOMOSEXUALLY MUST DIE AND BE CURED thing.

One, if homosexuality is 'against God,' why is it even here? If God didn't want homosexuals, why did He allow us to become them? If he really had no need for the 'sin of homosexuality,' it would most likely not be there at all. I haven't read the Bible, but saying God likes some people and not gay people isn't right, in my opinion. God's supposed to be kind, loving, benevolent; why would he want GLBT people dead?

Two, those 'cured' homosexuals weren't gay/lesbian/transsexual in the first place. If you're REALLY gay/lesbian/transsexual, you won't be 'cured' by religion. In my opinion, it's like trying to cure a dog of being a dog, making him a cat. You can't make a real dog a cat; you can't make a real gay person straight.

Three, homosexuality is NOT (in my opinion) a 'choice.' WHY do I think this? For one, why would someone chose to make their life harder?

An excerpt from a blog I wrote about on said topic:

Tell me, why would someone willingly choose to be the target of discrimination, hate, and violence? Why would someone willingly put themselves into a situation where someone would say something derogatory to them? Why would someone willingly put themselves in a situation where their friends and family would hate them. And why, why oh why oh why, would someone willingly put themselves in a situation where they could be the target of violence? Violence that sometimes leads to death?

What else makes it not a choice?

Homosexuality is common in the animal kingdom. An animal DOES NOT have control over its ability to mate or desire sexual compansionship, does it? If someone knows the answer to that, I'd really love to hear it. I bring this up because animals have a natural, biological need to mate with someone. Homosexuality is seen in cats, dogs, dolphins, horses, even primate species including chimpanzees, whom we have very little DNA seperation with.

I'd LOVE to Q&A the chick you're talking about, Wayne. I'd like to know how she'd respond to hearing about biological, SCIENTIFIC studies done on homosexuality. Did you know that homosexuality can be caused by environmental factors, including abuse? Or even BEFORE you are born, when you're inside the womb. Even a culture difference can make someone gay.

This is a shorter, condensed version (the choice one) about the essay I recently did about the 'choice' of being gay. That can be found here: http://insideyourinnerdemons.wordpress.com/about/support-pride/the-choice-of-being-gay/. I did a little research on hereditary aspects, prenatal influence, environmental trauma and cultural influence. The information might not be blown-out like I could've done it, but it's there.

[HOO-HAA]

Doug and Bowie - you seem to be practising 'a la carte' religion - choosing what's right for you and leaving the rest. I think that has merit - at least that approach acknowledges the inconsistencies and beaucoup de negativty within religion, but side-steps it. It puts you in control of your own religion and allows you to shape it for our own individual needs as you see fit - almost like the libertarian approach to government?

Kody - sounds to me like you may be a deist, at present. Deists believe in a non-interventional god - a being/ force/ whatever that kickstarted the big bang, if you like, then left everything else to evolve through time. This type of god would have no interest in one's personal life or choices and certainly wouldn't have any moral (or lack of) agenda.   

It's difficult to find fault with a la carte religion, unless you believe in an 'actual' interventional god - in which case, I think there are both scientific difficulties and philosophical difficulties to get around.

Deism, for me, has less scientific difficulties (although there is certainly no evidence for such a being), but considerable philosophical difficulties to address. 

[Kody Boye]

Doug and Bowie - you seem to be practising 'a la carte' religion - choosing what's right for you and leaving the rest. I think that has merit - at least that approach acknowledges the inconsistencies and beaucoup de negativty within religion, but side-steps it. It puts you in control of your own religion and allows you to shape it for our own individual needs as you see fit - almost like the libertarian approach to government?

Kody - sounds to me like you may be a deist, at present. Deists believe in a non-interventional god - a being/ force/ whatever that kickstarted the big bang, if you like, then left everything else to evolve through time. This type of god would have no interest in one's personal life or choices and certainly wouldn't have any moral (or lack of) agenda.   

It's difficult to find fault with a la carte religion, unless you believe in an 'actual' interventional god - in which case, I think there are both scientific difficulties and philosophical difficulties to get around.

Deism, for me, has less scientific difficulties (although there is certainly no evidence for such a being), but considerable philosophical difficulties to address. 

I don't really even believe in anything most of the time. I believe in myself, my friends, the people I love. I believe in medicine, in science, such like that. I just think that defining the fact that your life is governed by something higher and every single you do is marked isn't a healthy way of living.

If I had to live in fear of wondering whether something I did would affect my 'next/after' life, or my future in a way that wasn't strictly affecting my life (career/personal-wise,) I'd go nuts.

[DeadMama]

Doug and Bowie - you seem to be practising 'a la carte' religion - choosing what's right for you and leaving the rest. I think that has merit - at least that approach acknowledges the inconsistencies and beaucoup de negativty within religion, but side-steps it. It puts you in control of your own religion and allows you to shape it for our own individual needs as you see fit - almost like the libertarian approach to government?

Kody - sounds to me like you may be a deist, at present. Deists believe in a non-interventional god - a being/ force/ whatever that kickstarted the big bang, if you like, then left everything else to evolve through time. This type of god would have no interest in one's personal life or choices and certainly wouldn't have any moral (or lack of) agenda.   

It's difficult to find fault with a la carte religion, unless you believe in an 'actual' interventional god - in which case, I think there are both scientific difficulties and philosophical difficulties to get around.

Deism, for me, has less scientific difficulties (although there is certainly no evidence for such a being), but considerable philosophical difficulties to address. 

I don't really even believe in anything most of the time. I believe in myself, my friends, the people I love. I believe in medicine, in science, such like that. I just think that defining the fact that your life is governed by something higher and every single you do is marked isn't a healthy way of living.

If I had to live in fear of wondering whether something I did would affect my 'next/after' life, or my future in a way that wasn't strictly affecting my life (career/personal-wise,) I'd go nuts.

That's the cool thing, Kody....I don't worry about how it will affect me in the next life because I know it's gonna be okay! That's the cool thing about faith, when you just get it and all that worry is lifted off your shoulders. I can tell you that there have been times (especially lately) that without that faith, I wouldn't have kept on living. A lot of rough stuff has happened to my hubby and I and I truly believe that prayer and faith is what has kept us going.

[HOO-HAA]

I said:

Doug and Bowie - you seem to be practising 'a la carte' religion - choosing what's right for you and leaving the rest. I think that has merit - at least that approach acknowledges the inconsistencies and beaucoup de negativty within religion, but side-steps it. It puts you in control of your own religion and allows you to shape it for our own individual needs as you see fit - almost like the libertarian approach to government?

Kody - sounds to me like you may be a deist, at present. Deists believe in a non-interventional god - a being/ force/ whatever that kickstarted the big bang, if you like, then left everything else to evolve through time. This type of god would have no interest in one's personal life or choices and certainly wouldn't have any moral (or lack of) agenda.   

Kody replied:

I don't really even believe in anything most of the time. I believe in myself, my friends, the people I love. I believe in medicine, in science, such like that. I just think that defining the fact that your life is governed by something higher and every single you do is marked isn't a healthy way of living.

If I had to live in fear of wondering whether something I did would affect my 'next/after' life, or my future in a way that wasn't strictly affecting my life (career/personal-wise,) I'd go nuts.

So Kody, it seems to me that you're more akin to an atheist - with moments of agnosticism. Deism may not capture what you believe at all, so my mistake! 

Deadmama, you replied to Kody with this:

That's the cool thing, Kody....I don't worry about how it will affect me in the next life because I know it's gonna be okay! That's the cool thing about faith, when you just get it and all that worry is lifted off your shoulders.

... and I just wanted to clarify what you meant by it.

Kody seems to be saying that *because of his lack of religious faith* that he isn't worried about an 'afterlife' etc. - my stance, also.

You replied by stating that *because of your (religious/ christian) faith* you are not worried about what happens in 'the next life.' I also sense an implication from that; suggesting that anyone who doesn't have your (ie: christian) faith *would* have something to worry about from 'the next life'... would that be fair to say? And if so, would that apply to 'a la carte' xians like Doug and Bowie as well as an out-and-out atheist such as me?

Just trying to understand where you stand - I hope you don't think I'm prying! 

[DeadMama]

Nah, DDHH, I see what you are saying. I am not implying anything towards them, just stating how I feel. If Kody feels good about his life, then more power to him. It's not for me to judge anybody and I truly hope that he is a happy person in all he does. I love my faith and I believe in God, and if someone else doesn't, then I am not going to brow beat them about it; it's their choice in life. I'm not going to push what I believe on others, but I do like to try to explain how I feel and why.

[Kody Boye]

I used to believe more concretely, mind you. I'd use to pray to 'Him' every night. Then a lot of bad, and excuse the French/German/wherever the hell the word comes from, shit happened.

So... Yeah. *shrug*