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Author Topic: Bubble, bubble...?  (Read 3097 times)

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Lord Anubis

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Bubble, bubble...?
« on: February 20, 2012, 01:26:59 PM »

And now, on a slightly more serious note than my last post in this category...

Iain McKinnon (he of Remains of the Dead) recently posted a link to an interesting article in the Guardian equating the current ebook market to the kind of bubbles we've seen in finance, housing, technology, the internet, and so on.  He even does a nice job of showing how (so far) the ebook "revolution" hits most of the observed markers for a bubble.  

I found this interesting for a few reasons (not the least of which because I just used the "gold rush" analogy in an interview a few months ago).  One is that he's not coming down on the technology (which he pretty much seems to agree is here to stay), just the way people and markets are reacting to it.  Two is that it isn't predicting the sure-fire doom of any form of industry (paper, electronic, traditional, etc), just of this boom/flood of titles.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Vehement counterpoints?
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 03:23:50 PM »

I haven't read that link yet but I have always assumed the current flood is due to all the people who have had books sitting on their hard drives that they have never been able to get a publisher to bite on. Sure a natural increase is due to people being motivated by "do it yourself" thinking but there has to be a log jam of titles sitting there that people have been wishing someone would give them a chance at for a decade or three.

I'd be willing to bet our apocalypse overlord Jacob has had a glance out a lot of the horror ones that are kicking around createspace.
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 04:48:05 PM »

Analogy: Vinyl.

It "died" ... and then was reborn as an expensive, collectors only market ... I believe the same thing will occur to print: Books, mags, comics, etc.  Print runs will tail off ... and then become the exclusive realm of the collector, as opposed to the average reader.  Average reader will remain electronic, whereas those who "want a physical product" will continue to buy, but in the collector market, instead.

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Lord Anubis

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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 07:56:34 PM »

This isn't a discussion about the format, though, Zak.  As it says in the article and I mentioned above, the journalist admits it's here to stay, no questions about it.

The article is about the current market-mindset toward that format and if it's sustainable or already over-inflating...?
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 01:34:26 PM »

I don't intend to present a vehement counterpoint, though I have some disagreements with the guardian article.  Overall, I agree that we should be on alert for a bubble in this emerging industry; we should be alert form bubbles anywhere, as the economic environment is very conducive for one (has been for several decades).

I would argue that Minsky was being wordy in his explanation of the business cycle.  The stages of a bubble could be reduced to three: Easy Credit, Speculative Distortions, Contraction of Credit and the "Bust."  

The easy credit encourages growing levels of speculation and attracts predatory/irresponsible investing strategies.  This leads to malinvestment that is at first anesthetized to the poor fundamentals: the initial problems are "papered-over," so to speak.  The moment the lender attempts to tighten the reigns, call in on debt is the second the weakness is revealed and the "crisis/revulsion" Minsky writes about begins.  The longer the credit is easy, the worse the distortions and malinvestments.  

Very rarely is a poor investment paid off with more debt and speculation: we're talking gambling odds.  Trying to believe such a strategy will work on the aggregate is psychotic.  

Prior to the dotcom bust there were e-business ventures that were taking millions of dollars in loans to "go public," though they had no inventory, experience, infrastructure...  Even a simple game plan or budget.  Prior to the housing collapse you had the emergence of subprime mortgages, predicated on the notion that houses would never, ever reduce in dollar value, and that these dollars would create more dollars (and somehow, value) ad infinitum.  The larger the bubble, the greater the absurdity of the investment strategies.  

That quibble aside, and back on-topic: I think we are seeing a paradigm shift, but I wouldn't call "bubble" just yet.  We're not seeing the absurdities just yet.  

Van
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 02:05:16 PM by heavens2kadonka »
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »

I'm curious, Van... why do you think it isn't a bubble when two of your three (four?) stages have clearly already happened?

The Easy Credit stage is one that you and Morrison (the article author) agree on.  It your first, his third.  I think he's got a fairly solid argument where being able to lowball yourself counts as easy credit.

Speculative Distortions is also something he talks about.  How many "Self-Publish and make millions" websites and ebooks have sprung up in the past year or so?  How many people are flooding Amazon with "books" they wrote over the weekend because some guru told them they'll make a living off it?  Heck, read down the comments on the article--about a third of the people telling him he's wrong are also plugging books on how to e-publish.

So that's half (or two-thirds) of your points defining a bubble.  So what makes you say the current market isn't a bubble?
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 02:57:56 PM »

Quote
The stages of a bubble could be reduced to three: Easy Credit, Speculative Distortions, Contraction of Credit and the "Bust."

Damn the removal of Oxford commas! The credit contraction is what causes the bust; they go hand-in-hand.

Quote
The Easy Credit stage is one that you and Morrison (the article author) agree on.  It's your first, his third.  I think he's got a fairly solid argument where being able to lowball yourself counts as easy credit.

At least on the writer's end, I don't see this as "easy credit," as much as "removing barriers."  With costs for entering the market almost reduced to nil, there is no risk involved when it comes to entry.

Also disagree with the websites and self-help ebooks being comparable to speculative distortions.  I see it as more an attempt to tap into an emerging market.  Hell, we've had "how-to's" and "self-help's" years prior to the digital publisher!

Now, the companies offering digital space for these writers are speculating somewhat on extracting future profits.  Of course, with digital space growing and becoming more marginal in value daily (hourly), this also seems like a good means to exploit and extract value from such marginal digital space.

The housing and dot-com markets in their bubble days involved product that people believed would never stop increasing in value; this is why people were willing to go into debt to purchase even at the greatest of monetary heights.  In comparison, Epublishing is using marginal-cost, depreciating digital space to move untested works with little monetary investment and risk to the writer or host.  

Honestly, the more I read and think about it the less it looks like a bubble at this moment.  It is a game-changer for the business no doubt, but at the moment I see nothing that risks wrecking swathes of investors financially.

What will cause a bubble, imo, is a rise in value of digital space.

Van
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 03:19:44 PM by heavens2kadonka »
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 12:32:06 PM »

Quote
At least on the writer's end, I don't see this as "easy credit," as much as "removing barriers."  With costs for entering the market almost reduced to nil, there is no risk involved when it comes to entry.

Ahhh, but they're not reduced to nil.  That's a common misunderstanding.

Writing a book isn't free.  It costs me money, in the same way that an injury that keeps me from working costs you money.  Once I go into layout (since I'm self-publishing) it cost me more money.  Especially--as the article points out--if I'm buying a Kindle from Amazon to test my layout on.  It's not billions, sure, but there is an initial outlay by the creator.  Just because I get a free table at the swap meet doesn't mean everything on the table was free to make.

So the easy credit in this case is that I can put myself in a competitive spot (price-wise) and immediately play with the big boys, with the hope that I will make back the investment I've made (I spoke poorly in my last reply).  It's easily accessible because I don't really need much of it to put myself on equal footing with Viking Books, for example--perhaps an even better position because I can lowball their prices (although this makes it harder for me to recoup my investment).

Likewise, yes, we've had "how-to" books over the decades, but unless I'm wrong there hasn't been a huge explosion of "making millions in real estate books" over the past two years.  Those were all about eight years ago... during the real estate bubble. 

Unless the author's slapping a money-back guarantee on the cover, I don't know how "make millions in the ebook gold rush" can be seen as anything but specualtive distortion.  Seriously, type "make money with ebooks" into Google and you'll get back ninety-five million results.  If I'm telling a million people they can each make a million dollars doing something... well, common sense says that's distorting the market.  We all know there will be a limited number of successes and far, far more failures, but these books are plainly telling people otherwise.

The digital space idea is interesting, but I think that's really much deeper on the distribution side of things.  I don't see how it has anything to do with this, except as "another place a bubble could happen is...".
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 03:04:30 PM »

You bring up a good point: I have ignored mentioning the personal costs/investments on the part of the writer.

That said, I can incorporate that into my optimist stance as being a balancing mechanism for warding off an ebook bubble.  While there is now a more cost-effective alternative for entry into the market, the investment of personal effort and time in producing a readable work (not to mention one consumers will like) is a neat, natural barrier to entry.  Compare that with how standards for entering the housing market were *artificially* slackened during the bubble; having a pulse was the only prereq for some of the shadier deals during this period.

Now, I conjecture that we agree on the "easy credit" in this case being the digital space (that "competitive spot price-wise" you mention being due in my opinion to the more even playing field brought about by the marginal and bargain-priced space).  Now, where I think this market becomes unique is the nature of the credit in question.  This credit offered isn't a fiduciary media for trade, like fiat paper or gold.  It is a resource, and an expanding, depreciating one at that.  

We differ on definition of market distortions.  I would define the examples of "get rich quick" sites and books as "misleading/predatory advertising."  I see that as a cause of distortion, not the distortion itself; when people waste money on the predatory product, I would call that the distortion.  I also define "market" in this conversation as a larger-scale aggregate tendency of the buyers and sellers.  Thus, I would define a market distortion as a part of the bubble as an unnatural market situation being artificially maintained.  An example would be the dotcom company in 1998 with millions of dollars of investment, but an inventory valued at $1000.00.  There were people who would see this and claim the situation to be the "new normal."

In contrast, I don't think the emerging ebook market is an aberration.  Just a new market working towards an equilibrium of prices.

I was going off topic with the digital bubble scenario, I apologize.  This is a unique topic that interests both of us for different but connected reasons, which is pretty cool.

Van
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 03:21:53 PM by heavens2kadonka »
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 02:36:24 AM »

I think there's going to be a bubble.

Why? At some point, people will start flooding the market with garbage and big corporations will want their material to have a superior market value than the stuff people just crank out. As a result, a kind of equilibrium will be reached which will weed the wheat from the chafe, so to speak in the same way that self-published books are.

I don't know, maybe Amazon.com will make book of the month clubs like Oprah or something.

I do think, however, that tablets will become increasingly common as the years go by allowing ebooks to have a larger market share.
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 07:10:11 PM »

The analogy, the way Morrison has stretched it, definitely seems to fit the ebook phenomena. But the article is comparing authors to investors, or even speculators, which, at certain levels, becomes a false analogy. They're more akin to small business owners. Yes, they're investing, but... this part of the analogy only works superficially. It falls apart when you start comparing ebook self-publishing to investing in a company, or buying a house. I've self-published Kindle Shorts. I've bought a house. Let me tell you, there is a huge difference.

And you know, it's actually more like the author is comparing writers to real estate agents AND home buyers all at the same time; or investors AND businesses.

Let's take a closer look at his major points...


Stage One – Disturbance
This comparison seems accurate enough: the invention of new technology created a disturbance in the market.


Stage Two – Expansion/Prices Start to Increase
Buying an ebook reader is definitely more expensive than buying a book, so in a way he's correct that prices have increased. But because ebooks are cheaper (even when they're priced the same as the print edition, you save on shipping), voracious readers will find that the technology pays for itself. Voracious readers are statistically the biggest consumers of ebooks, so it begs the question: have prices actually increased, or are you just paying more upfront for greater savings in the long run? I guess it depends on what model you buy, and how often you upgrade.

Furthermore 1:
The prices of basic Kindles have dropped. A third generation "Kindle Keyboard" started with a $399 price tag. Currently you can pick one up for $139. Compare that to any commodity inflating in a bubble, like a house, and it's easy to see that on this level the analogy is false: a single model of an ebook reader does not go up in value like an investment is supposed to.

Furthermore 2:
Look into Moore's Law, specifically how it affects the price of technology over time: it gets cheaper even as it gets more powerful.


Stage Three – Euphoria/Easy Credit
Like stage one, this stage seems to reflect what's happening quite accurately. But I'm suspicious of how the author is defining "easy credit" and "speculation." Unfortunately I don't know enough about economics and investing to debate this point, but I'm fairly certain "speculating" means something other than people telling you you'll be rich if you do something. I'm pretty sure speculating is a type of high-risk investment (for the lack of a better word) that can distort the actual value of something; not just in perception but in actual price. (See the role of homeowner speculation in the subprime mortgage crisis.)

And isn't easy credit referring more to loans? During the rise of the real estate bubble, buyers got loans that banks never should have given them. Again, it's a type of "investment" that runs the risk of distorting real market value... by directly affecting price.

I don't know enough to conclude, but I'm really suspicious that the author might have distorted terms to make this part of the analogy seem true.


Stage Four – Over-trading/Prices Reach a Peak
I'm going to number my arguments here to mirror his numbered arguments.

1. He says, "The zooming prices here refers to the zooming down of prices," but I'm fairly certain the economist he's quoting meant the zooming up of prices, which is incredibly dangerous to the investors and speculators in a market because it encourages them to take higher risks on a commodity that's not worth it; therefore, when the bubble bursts, everyone loses money. I admit, there are dangers in lowering ebook prices: traditional publishers just can't consistently compete, and in the long run it could kill their business. So I agree there is a danger here, but the author of the article is really twisting facts to validate his analogy.

He also wholly ignores the economist's point that "easy profits are made." In fact, he goes on to invalidate any correlation he might have drawn here when he talks about authors giving away their work for free, authors getting overlooked because of market saturation, and, in his second point, authors making costly investments in an ebook reader. Obviously some authors are making an easy profit (see J.A. Konrath), and I can't say for sure that lesser known self-publishers aren't making an easy profit as well, but the way this article is written, it definitely seems as if easy profits aren't being made.

2. The author is right that there is a mass behavior currently flooding the ebook market with outsiders. That's true. He makes a lot of good points here, but this one: "[The authors] may be giving their ebooks away for free but they're spending between £100-400 on single items of new technology – more than they ever actually spent on books in a year." He needs to substantiate this. How does he know what the average self-published author spends on books in a single year? Where's his proof? Look, I can easily guestimate here, based off 2003 numbers no less:

Quote from: Publisher's Weekly

The average price of adult trade paperbacks increased slightly, about 2 cents, to $15.77; and adult trade mass market titles increased 32 cents, to $7.30.

Trade paperbacks have been slowly replacing mass-market editions, so let's be conservative and say half the time the average reader buys mass market, and half the time they buy trade; the average book price would be... $11.54? And say on average a regular reader buys twelve books a year. That's a $138 budget. The Kindle Keyboard costs $139, at the cheapest end of Morrison's price range (his range actually starts a little higher, at 100£, which is about $158; maybe that is [or was] the cost of this Kindle model over there???). I can't say for sure my assumptions are correct, but at least I'm using more data than Morrison seems to use in making his point, and at least I'm qualifying that it's an assumption instead of stating it as a fact. Yes, at the higher range of devices, these authors are probably spending way more than they would on books in a year; but at the lower range? It's questionable.

Plus, Morrison isn't even considering the other reasons a self-published author might buy an eReader or compatible tablet: they're freaking cool. Plus plus, he's not taking into account that this type of expense, as well as any other "investment" the author might make, IS TAX DEDUCTIBLE against any profit; so when their refund comes, have these authors really spent more than they would spend on books in a year?

But the real issue here is... how does Morrison's point align at all with the subtopic? This isn't about how much an author spends on books in a year, so what's he trying to say?


Stage Five – Market Reversal/Insider Profit Taking
He makes good points here, this one especially: "The crisis that's looming is that while the price of ebooks is pushed to almost zero by the rush of frantic amateur self-publishing activity, the established publishing businesses will be forced into life-saving cost-cutting." While his conclusion stands to reason, he's not really supporting his assertion. Again, where's his data to prove that bargain-basement self-publishing is destroying traditional publishing? Maybe it is, but you can't expect readers to believe a claim like this without any sort of support. We have to ask, do self-published ebooks outsell traditionally published ebooks? The long tail would suggest that collectively they do. But that spending is also spread out over a much wider audience than the pool of voracious readers. So is this outselling really the demise of traditional publishing? Or are there other larger factors at play? I honestly don't know. And Morrison certainly isn't answering that question here.


Stage Six – Financial Crisis
Of Amanda Hawking, Morrison writes:

Quote
The self-epublished author has left the glass-ceiling world of 79c ebook sales (to embrace the old mainstream model, believing that it is the only system that can elevate her to a higher profile and bring her into an arena where her books can by "synergised" with tie-in products such as films, TV serials, even toys) and the door of opportunity closes behind her as she exits, leaving hundreds of thousands of self-epublishing authors without a model to aspire to.

Yeah, maybe if Amanda Hawking were the only successful self-publisher of ebooks. Morrison is totally overlooking the exceptions to his rule. Like J.A. Konrath, or Barry Eisler, who turned down half a million dollars from a traditional publisher because he believed he could make more as a self-publisher. Morrison's previous point that these models of success are generally unattainable definitely seems to be true, but here he's making a sweeping generalization just to prove his argument. Just because big-shots like Amanda Hawking sign up for the big leagues doesn't mean there won't be any more models for self-publishers to aspire to.

The rest of his argument here, I just can't comment on. I don't know enough about how these behaviors are going to affect the market, and I'm not sure what people's attitudes will be if they become disillusioned. But I will say that if the ebook "bubble" bursts as Morrison envisions, it's not necessarily a bad thing for traditional publishers. He's assuming total meltdown of the entire industry while overlooking the alternative.



Stage seven – Revulsion/Lender of Last Resort
Here, Morrison argues that self-publishers will become "disillusioned with their ereaders, which are now out of date anyway. And so they return to the mainstream publishers to look for culture."

Firstly, cell phones have been around for a long time, and as long as the technology evolves, people will be interested in the newest model. So far, ebook readers have continued to evolve right along with other technology. So again Morrison is jumping to a rather huge assumption totally at odds with trends established beyond the book industry. He's also assuming mainstream publishers won't be offering ebooks in his literary dystopia. Basically he's saying that if the general public can't earn money self-publishing ebooks, they won't want anything to do with ebooks at all. He's gone well beyond any defensible argument at this point.

Morrison goes on to say:

Quote
Unfortunately, as a result of the ebook market implosion it is impossible for publishers to push their prices back up to pre-bubble levels (from 99p to £12.99), and so their infrastructure continues to decline. And since they have decided to look for new talent in self-epublishing, they are trapped in the very same bubble that everyone else is trying to get out of.

We need proof that mainstream publishers have significantly lowered the price of their ebooks, because Morrison seems to think they've dropped all the way down to 99p. Based on anecdotal evidence, I don't believe that's entirely true. Go search the Kindle Store for your favorite traditionally published authors: you'll probably see a few cheaply priced titles, but you'll probably see more prices equal to a mass-market paperback; you'll also see a few priced more like a trade paperback, or even as high as a hardback.

To further invalidate his argument in the quote above, Morrison seems to be saying that because publishers changed the source of their talent, they're essentially stuck looking in the same place from here on out, even when that talent dries up. As if it's that static. As if there aren't tons of super-talented, hungry authors out there just waiting for a big break, who still work even if they're not getting paid yet. Again, Morrison's argument at this point is indefensible.

I can't really comment on the rest of this subtopic, when it comes to last resort lending and subsidizing. But I can comment on his conclusion:

Quote
Of course, none of this might come to pass. Perhaps self-epublishing wont take off, and perhaps people will continue to pay more than 99p for ebooks and paper books. And perhaps hundreds of thousands of new writers will actually taste success. But this, again, is mere speculation.

Based on his previous arguments, self-epublishing has already taken off, and it would seem by his description that we're currently in a mix of stage five and six. And you know what? People are still paying more than 99p for ebooks and paper books.

Overall, Morrison brings up some solid points, but I think there are enough major holes in his argument that the analogy of a bubble-driven apocalypse is faulty, and his conclusion overlooks other viable possibilities: namely that if the self-publishing ebook craze does collapse, traditional publishers could actually thrive in its absence.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:27:33 PM by Snell »
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 07:49:14 PM »

Wow.  That is a big wall of text, Snell... 

I just wanted to address one point of it, because it's a point that's come up in this discussion before...

Quote
And isn't easy credit referring more to loans? During the rise of the real estate bubble, buyers got loans that banks never should have given them. Again, it's a type of "investment" that runs the risk of distorting real market value... by directly affecting price.

As mentioned above, the easy credit here is the fact that a writer doesn't need any sort of investment anymore.  In any business venture, from Silicon Valley to lemonade stand, there's a given amount of credit you need to get off the ground.  Normally easy credit refers to the fact that investors will flock to you--even if your odds of actual success are slim--because the potential rewards for your chosen market are huge.  Not everyone gets it

In our scenario, easy credit is the fact that we all are on par with everyone else, no credit required.  It's all the people getting into it that shouldn't be, just like housing or dot-coms or what have you, because they were told this is where the money is and they got the right people (or, in this case, no one) to give them the necessary boost so they could play, too.

I will add that Van mentioned personal investment could serve as a counter to this.  Not everyone will be willing to put aside the time and resources to create a sales-worthy book.  Alas, I would say history proved this is not true at all.  Historically it's the publishers who created that counterbalance--the gatekeeprs, much as I hate that term.  If I couldn't write a sales-worthy book, it's not that it wouldn't sell--it wouldn't be sold, period.  That manuscript would never hit shelves anywhere.

This is no longer the case, though.  I can write up 500 pages of "LA LA LA LA LA" over the weekend and come Monday morning it will be part of the marketplace.  It's affecting prices by nature of being something else for sale, and it's affecting the market in general by being... well, 500 pages of "LA LA LA LA LA."   :-\
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 08:24:27 AM »

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As mentioned above, the easy credit here is the fact that a writer doesn't need any sort of investment anymore.

The "easy credit" in the dot-com and housing bubble was media that represented wealth: production and deferred consumption of human beings.  The "easy credit" in the e-publishing sector is digital space: marginal, exploitable resources.  It is a critical difference.  If the digital space for e-publishing crashed, disappeared today, would it be the same chaos and destruction as when a line of monetary credit that kept companies a,b,c afloat disappeared?  

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I will add that Van mentioned personal investment could serve as a counter to this.  Not everyone will be willing to put aside the time and resources to create a sales-worthy book.  Alas, I would say history proved this is not true at all.  Historically it's the publishers who created that counterbalance--the gatekeeprs, much as I hate that term.  If I couldn't write a sales-worthy book, it's not that it wouldn't sell--it wouldn't be sold, period.  That manuscript would never hit shelves anywhere.

Why does a publisher turn away a work? Because the publisher requires profit to exist, and producing a product that wouldn't sell would result in a loss.  One also needs to take into account the publisher to a degree banks on it's reputation in the marketplace, and producing shoddy product will reduce it's customer base to the percentage of the population that demands such.  The publishers played a major part, but they are not the only possible counter to shoddy product.  

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I can write up 500 pages of "LA LA LA LA LA" over the weekend and come Monday morning it will be part of the marketplace.  It's affecting prices by nature of being something else for sale, and it's affecting the market in general by being... well, 500 pages of "LA LA LA LA LA.

Yes, thanks to the online marketplace an author can now, with little risk, sell a product like the 500-page "Book of LA's," but how can we know it will make the author rich? Will it attract a fan base, guaranteeing the author's future works will sell? How can we know such a work will negatively or positively impact the marketplace? Why isn't every Stephanie Meyer clone as rich as she? Why do people still buy Anna Karenina?  

What I'm getting at is that the market is not determined by one person, group, or event.  It is constantly changing according to specific sellers, specific buyers, the speculators, the governments, the weather, locations.  

Not trying to completely rain on the parade: the situation you presented above could and maybe will occur, LA.  On it's own, however, that isn't what makes a bubble.  What makes a bubble, a business cycle, a boom-bust, is when forces artificially maintain a situation that the market would have destroyed long before.  Easy credit allows for distortions, but when outside forces attempt to maintain the credit flow is when we get the insanity of dot-com, housing, Roaring Twenties, savings and loan...

Van
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 08:50:22 AM by heavens2kadonka »
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heavens2kadonka

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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2012, 11:50:16 AM »

...Production and deferred consumption BY human beings.  Poor choice of wording for this forum.  :D

Van
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Re: Bubble, bubble...?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM »

The easy credit in the dot-com and housing bubbles was financial credit.  Just like credit cards, credit with my bank, etc.  Because of the field they were trying to get into, credit was given to some people much easier than it would've been in other situations.  As you yourself have pointed out, people were extended credit to buy real estate who should not have received it.

If you want to re-define credit on your own terms, that's fine.   But don't use that new definition to counter the article, because the article (and I think most everyone here) is using credit in the classical sense--to mean financial credit.  As I've said above, I think digital space is another issue altogether and not the point of the article.

The easy credit for e-publishing is that you don't need credit anymore.  It's easy because it's (effectively) abundant.

If it makes it simpler, think of it this way.  During the gold rush, one of the major things people needed credit for was traveling thousands of miles out west to where the gold was.  Many people were able to do it because lots of folks back east were willing to invest in someone going to strike it rich in those abundant fields of gold.  That's easy credit.  You're going west to dig for gold?  Sure I'll finance your trip.

However... let's say Tesla had gotten his teleporter working.  Now going cross country only costs a buck or two.  And so lots of people who shouldn't be traveling out for the gold rush do it anyway because now this is something everyone can afford to do.  The cheapness of it creates the exact same situation as it would've if credit was flowing freely for it.  So the gold rush still happens (or in this case, the stage of a potential bubble) because everyone's still acting the same way.

As for the second half of your counterpoint... well, I think the point I was trying to make has been missed.  You said that the requirements to make a good book (the production costs that I originally pointed out) would serve as a natural barrier to entry into the market.  This is not the case.  That barrier was the publishers.  I think you agree with this, but it's hard to be sure.

I can now put anything into the market.  Anything.  I can put my book of "LA LA LA LA",   I can put an unedited first draft.  I can put out half of an unedited first draft.  There are no barriers.  

Once these things are in the market, they are affecting the market.  I can't put two million illiterate, crap, just-plain-awful self-published books on Amazon and think they're not going to reflect on the two million that are good or even just passable.  This was addressing Snell's point on easy credit reflecting on the market.  It's people getting into the market and affecting the market who previously wouldn't've been able to (because of lack of credit or ability).  

I do agree with you that there are many forces at work on the market.  And as I--and Snell, and the article, and even you-- have said, easy credit is one of them.  That's why it was brought up in the list of other factors and no one ever said it was the only point.

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...Production and deferred consumption BY human beings.  Poor choice of wording for this forum.   :D

The sad thing is, that didn't even strike me as odd until you pointed it out...  ;D
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:53:08 AM by Lord Anubis »
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